tomorrow on our program, do you know geraldo rivera? >> yes. elmo loves his mustache. >> steve: he was on sesame street. >> gretchen: his mustache is legendary. >> very. it's a muppet. >> gretchen: geraldo the muppet will be here. log on for our after the show show 'cause we'll have more fun with elmo. >> after the show show. >> brian: maybe we'll touch him. >> after the show show. >> gretchen: bye. bill: breaking news on the economy, a spike in the number of americans taking first-time unemployment benefits, 439,000 americans on the unemployment line, that's an increase of 2000 over the previous week. the good news in all this, it's the lowest level we've seen in more than two years. however, analysts say these need to be a lot lower to show growth in job creation. so stu than and the stock market, 30 minutes from now. in the meantime a

stunning decision in the case of the first gitmo detainee tried in a civilian court, not guilty in all but one of more than 280 charges. that's a massive setback for the obama administration's strategy to bring suspected terrorists to justice. a jury finding ahmed ghailani not guilty of more than 200 murder, including 12 americans, dating back to the august 199 # bombings in east africa of two u.s. embassies, he was one guilty count short of wag scot-free. good morning, i'm bill hemmer, live in "america's newsroom". we have a packed show. martha: stunning. good morning, i'm martha maccallum. he is the only detainee to be tried in new york after being transferred from gitmo, and now this verdict. so now what? when it comes to where to try this man, 9/11 mastermind khalid shaikh mohammed. bill: good question. david lee miller leads our coverage from the newsroom. first, how did ghailani escape these charges? >> reporter: arguably,

bill, it looks like the prosecution lost this case before the trial even got underway. during the jury selection, the judge made a ruling, and said that the government's star witness, a man named hussein abibi, was not going to be allowed to testify. the judge ruled that the prosecution only knew about his existence because they say that name was learned through coercive questioning of ghailani when he was in cia customer ce -- custody and had he been allowed to testify, what aibi -- abibi would have told the court is he sold the defendant the explosives that were used to phro*e up the embassy. that information -- to blow up the embassy, that information was never heard in court and the defense during the trial simply told the jury over and over again their client was a dupe who may have helped al-qaeda operatives but had no idea what the consequences would be. that argument may have been a lot more difficult to make if the jury had heard ghailani had purchased the explosives. bill: wow. what was the mood inside the

courtroom after that decision by the jury? >> reporter: a great deal of tension and drama. it's worth noting, bill, that the verdict came down at about 5:25, only minutes before the jury was slated to go home for the day. the defense, obviously, very pleased, ghailani himself, smiled occasionally, as the jury rattled off not guilty, not guilty, not guilty, with one exception, the prosecution sat poker-faced and they left the courtroom without saying a word. bill. bill: david lee miller, leading our coverage this morning. there's a lot to talk about on this story. david lee sets the table for us and martha has more now. martha: there is indeed a lot to talk about, in withthis case and we want to take you back to the origin of this, the two horrific bombings of the u.s. embassies in africa came three years before the attacks on 9/11 soil -- in american soil, 11 people were hurt, 213 people lost

their lives at the embassy in kenya, about 4500 more people were hurt, 12 americans were among those murdered in the kenya attack. we're going to have a lot more on this developing story, the man who will head the homeland security committee starting in january joins us in a few minutes, republican congressman peter king is outraged by this verdict. he will be here in "america's newsroom", live. bill in the meantime, let's go to capitol hill right now. all eyes on the hill and all eyes on charlie rangel, awaiting his fate, at high noon today, the house ethics committee will meet to talk about rangel's punishment. it could range anywhere from a slap on the wrist to expulsion from the house. he's a 40-year veteran of congress, found guilty on 11 ethical violations, 11 of 13, in fact. rangel expected to appear today to make a bit of a case for himself. the full house will vote eventually on the recommendation of the ethics committee. watch all that today in washington. martha.

martha: there was a win for nancy pelosi, america was first female house speaker will remain the democrats' leader in the next congress, she beat out blue dog challenger heath shuler who put his name on the scene in all this, she beat him by 153-40 votes, a resounding victory but the former football player says her victory does not mean concerns about her leadership has gone away. >> i think it was much -- it was a message from the standpoint that there are more than just the blue dogs who have a concern with what is going on, and that message has been loud and clear. martha: steve centanni joins us live in washington with more. steve, where do the house democrats go from here? >> reporter: martha, 245eur7 going to have a challenge pulling together in the -- they're going to have a challenge in the divided democratic caucus, nancy pelosi turning away two challenges yesterday, one to delay the leadership vote until a later time and, one, to elect someone else

to the post. as it turns out pelosi was chosen as leader in the house, she won that by 150- 43. >> i'm proud to be part of this leadership team, our consensus is we go out there, listen to the american people, it's about jobs, it's about reducing the decifit and it's about fighting for the middle class. >> reporter: now, pelosi, as you mentioned, defeated challenger heath shuler of north carolina who won 43 votes, shuler saying this was not about winning or losing, but to assure the moderates we're heard 57bd we get a seat at the table but there are fewer moderates because and pelosi's liberal backers won the day. martha: we're going to talk more about that coming up later in the show. what about the republican side of the house, steve, in terms of leadership there? >> well, very quickly, as expected, john boehner of ohio won the top spot, assuring he will be the next speaker of the house in january when this new congress, the 112th congress, is sworn in. the ohio democrat has been the house minority leader,

as you know, and will become the nation's 61st speaker of the house on his 61st birthday. congressman eric cantor of virginia was also chosen to be minority leader, -- he was chosen to be the majority leader in the next congress, kevin mccarthy will be the republican whip, jeb hensarling of texas is conference chairman, this is the job michelle bachmann was going after, happying -- hoping to bring a tea party voice to the leadership but that was turned aside. martha: we'll talk to jeb hensarling this morning so we'll look forward to that. thank you very much. >> you bet. bill: the election is still going on. did you know that? new york's newly elected congressman, tom reed, taking his oath of office today. reed is a republican, filling the seat left vacant by eric massa, massa resigned in march amid allegations he sexually harass dollars a male 5*eud,

the house wants to swear in reid because -- reed because that house has been without district representation for many, many months. martha: history made in alaska, projecting lisa murkowski the winner of the senate race there, making her first -- the first one to win as a write-in candidate since 1954. she beat out, and it's been well documented here, republican nominee joe miller who was the tea party candidate. this was a very interesting turnaround in this whole story, lisa murkowski declaring victory. >> what held me, what kept my course, and this takes it back to your dad, his motto was to hell with politics, let's just do what's right for alaska, and that what we did. martha: well, the ted murkowski mentioned of course is the long-time alaska senator ted stevens and joe miller has not conceded, he hasn't decided whether to seek a recount.

the alaska party is calling for him to bow out. bill: in the race in minnesota, mark dayton leading republican tom emmer, but just about 8700 votes until they hold a recount on the 29th of november, emmer asking the minnesota supreme court to order a review of how the ballots were counted on election night before that recount begins, he says that some precincts may not have followed procedure. it's unclear how long it would delay the recount. it's dejavu for the people of minnesota. in '08, the recount between coleman and al franken dragged on for eight months. eventually, minnesota's supreme court stepped in, declared franken the winner, franken, sneaking by coleman by a mere 312 votes, out of nearly 3 million ballots cast. minnesota likes their elections tight. that's what they're getting again. right about ten minutes after the hour. martha: the white house says

it is open to a compromise on the bush tax cuts. so what about gop? a newly minted leader of the house republicans joins us next to tell us whether the gop is interested in any bending on that issue. bill: also, she has not said whether or not she is runing in 201 but did sarah palin stir the pot? what she told barbara walters that's getting everybody talking this morning. and -- >> martha: in united states, this is going on, next. >> they tried to get into the meeting, down the stairwell and someone went across me.

>> i it's just working out the scheduling, making sure that everybody is able to make it. we're looking forward to sitting down with the president and making sure

this country is back on the right track. >> some people have tried to put aspersions on that. >> that's people playing politics. the whole goal of this conference is to make sure we're creating jobs, cutting spending, making sure america is successful. bill that's kevin mccarthy out of california, part of the new leadership. he was talking about a meeting that was supposed to happen today and will not. meanwhile the debate on taxes runs today, a bit earlier i talk to jeb hensarling out of texas: >> jeb hensarling, good morning and welcome back to "america's newsroom". i want to get to tax cuts in a moment and especially that meeting at the white house that will happen in two weeks or so that we just heard from kevin mccarthy. you said this yesterday, our nation is at a tipping point, i have seen what happens when republicans lose their way. what do you mean by that? >> well, i was there the last time the republicans had the majority, and

frankly, too often in appearance and too often in reality, republicans didn't live up to their principles. it was one of the reasons we were turned out, and i think we all very much realize that the american people didn't so much affirm us in the last election, they rejected the polices of president barack obama, nancy pelosi, and harry reid. but by doing that, they have given us a second chance, and i am dedicated, as is speaker helicopter to-be john boehner and the rest of our leadership to make sure that republicans don't commit the mistake they made last time. we know what this election was all about: the american people want more jobs, they want less spending, they want a more accountable, limited federal government, and that's what we're going to work towards. bill: let's get to one of the big issues and that is tax cuts. do you have a clear understanding as to where the president is on this, or have things been a bit squishy with the signals from the white house? >> well, no, i do not have a clear understanding of what the president position position -- president's

position is and i would say this, number one, we're not really talking about cutting anybody's taxes, we're talking about preventing automatic tax increases, that even democrat economists like peter orsag -- orszag, one of the authors of obamanomics have said this is a bad idea, so i don't understand why the white house would put forth a plan that would raise taxes, a lot of the taxes would go on small businesses at a time that we're suffering to a double digit point. bill: you know in the house you don't have the numbers until january anyway to get this through the republican way. how many democrats support your position? >> i don't know the answer to that, bill. we've seen some in the past talk a good game, they just didn't play a good game. now, a lot of those will not be coming back in the next election, because their constituents have held them accountable but they're here now and how they'll vote is lame ducks. i just don't have an answer to that. bill: let me get to one or

question on taxes, and that's all this discussion about a national sales tax, 6.5% is the number thrown out there. under what conditions would you support that? >> well, unless we repeal the constitutional amendment that allows for the income -- income taxi would never support it. never support it. you would end up with both, you would become europe. there are cases of -- >> bill: so you'd get rid of the income tax or slash it to the point that it compensates for that 6.5%? >> no, you'd have to absolutely get rid of t you would have to absolutely pass a constitutional amendment in my right to get rid of it. i think frankly a more feasible process, to put together a flat tax, and you know, principal conservatives with come out, i think it's an easier lift, but the bottom line is our tax system is making us less competitive, not just the level of taxation, the complexity of the taxation, and it's one of the things that i at least applaud the

erskine bowles and senator simpson, who chairs the fiscal responsibility commission, i don't agree with everything in their plan, i don't necessarily agree with the entirety of their tax plan but to essentially flatten out the tax expenditures in order to bring rates down to a flatter level is a huge step in the right direction. bill: americans are waiting for answers, as you know, and businesses in america are looking for direction. jeb hensarling, thank you, and congratulations on your leadership post now. >> thank you. bill: and what will be the new majority come january. out of texas, sir, thank you, on the hill. >> thank you. martha: all of that brings this big question, right? what to do about the massive red ink in this budget. can we really cut our debt without raising taxes? can it be done? a reality check is coming up. bill: the big old smackdown on the patdown. have you had one of these? just a love pat, as one

senator says, or do they border on assault? the hot *s topic in america, still to come. >> any member who is not -- who has not experienced that patdown, i would not do that, but a qualified security officer would be glad to do that.

martha: brand new polls show that many americans believe that the government can, in fact, cut the decifit without raising anybody's taxes. i know it's a novel idea but apparently 51 percent of you out there, according to rasmussen, think that it is possible. 33 percent say nope, you're going to have to raise taxes in order to tackle the decifit, 16 percent are just on the fence, they have no idea how to solve this

problem and they're certainly not alone. david mcdowell joins me, -- dana mcdowell joins me, a fox business anchor. we're going to have to cut meat from the bones or completely bankrupt the company. >> right. it comes down to spending cuts. we should point out in the "rasmussen poll", 51 percent, that's up 14 percentage points from earlier this year, from -- more people think that we can get our financial house in order by cutting spending but that comes down to what are you willing to give up, what are you willing to forego if you're going to cut spending, and i want to point out that americans for tax reform, it's an organization, they do have a plan to balance the budget, and people can go to their website and read it. martha: what are they slashing? >> all discretionary spending, including defense, will be rolled back and frozen at 2008 levels, medicaid and other entitlements, rolled back to '08 funding levels and medcade would be handled in

block grants, more like welfare is handled to the states. so it's a lengthy report, but at the end of the day, when polls on the opposite side, there's a "wall street journal"-nbc poll -- people don't want to give up, they don't want to cut social security. martha: of course they don't but you look at these numbers, eventually we're going to have to tackle this or bankrupt our country. is that not a fact? >> that's a fact. but because it's a day -- the day of reckoning is not here now, today, then we as a nation have been kicking this can down the road but i must say the voters really spoke earlier this month, and you've already seen at least on the gop in the senate coming out and saying we're going to ban earmarks. people dismissed the $16 billion that was -- >> martha: and there's a lot of support for that. it's a very small amount of the overall budget but at least they're heading in the right direction. social security, and every time i bring this up i get e-mails from folks who are very concerned about this and i don't think anybody wants to cut social security from people actually

receiving it now, who have been paying bo spwo* it their whole lives, that's what we're talking about but 2075, you raise the age to 69, you look at life expectancy and the reason social security was instituted, which was to help widows and orphans, there has to be room in there, but a change to that system is onerous. >> in that poll, 57 percent were uncomfortable with just raising the re -- retirement age to 69. >> wonder if they had that money on their own, if they invest that money. it's a taboo idea, but to have more control over their social security fund. >> are we going to deal with this problem today and make it ours and take care of it or are we going to kick it down the road and make it our grandchildren's problems? martha: the most fascinating thing to me is the number of people in america who think we can deal with it without raising taxes went up 14 percent. >> quickly, i've said this, people have gotten their own financial houses in order, they've cut spending, they're living within their

means and demanding it from the government. martha: thank you very much. dagen mcdowell. good stuff. bill: 26 past now, it is the top gun, the most sophisticated fighter jet in the skies, and now it is crashed in the alaskan wilderness. there is a search and rescue underway, scouring that rugged terrain for any sign of its pilot. update on that. martha: a major revelation from sarah palin, folks. what she said that now has the 2012 watchers talking this morning. a fair and balanced debate, coming up. >> there's nobody else that i think wants to do the job and is willing to make the tough decisions and isn't so caught up in the political machine that they believe that they have to compromise, then i'd be willing to make the sacrifices and run for office.

bill: 9:30 in new york, some of our top stories now, breaking news on the hill regarding federal funding for ngr, national rub lick radio, republicans pushing to cut off the federal money. it's a portion of the overall budget, republicans targeting npr after juan williams was fired by npr about a month ago. tennessee, a judge giving the green light to a mosque. they're tossing out a lawsuit from opponents that claim that county planners acted illegally when they approved that construction. tight security in berlin

after word of a possible threat from islamic extremists, the german government and ministers saying the threat level was raised after a tip of some attack was planned for the end of this month. 9:31. now martha. martha: all right, thank you bill. sarah palin's bombshell interview with barbara walters, sparking new questions about a possible 2012 run for the white house. the former republican v.p. candidate says she thinks she could beat president obama if she decides to run. first walters asked her if she would run and the response was this, i'm looking at the lay of the land, trying to figure out fits a good thing for the country, for the discourse, for my family. walters asked if you ran for president could you beat president barack obama -- barack obama and she said this, i believe so. former deputy campaign manager to mitt romney, and

jason is a talk show host, good morning. it sounds like she's run. brad: at this point all the indications are that she looks to be running and i think any candidate that is serious has to start to put the organization in place now, both to suck up the talents out there but also to build the organization that will be necessary to be competitive. martha: you know, it's interesting, i read the other day that by this point, after the mid terms, they had already declared, it is certainly not too early for folks to be declare be -- tee clearly -- declaring and a lot of them have. and one of the reasons i have heard is because they're waiting to see what she's doing to -- going to do. >> and the political calculus, is it smarter to be the first or wait for sarah palin. right now we have # or five main tkoepbders but there's also the unknown con terredder, who will rise up in the next two years and be that surprise star for the republican party.

martha: and the couple of names we want to talk about with regard to that -- let's pull up the polls and basically they show mitt romney, sarah palin, mike huckabee, newt gingrich, all getting a lot of attention. there's the favorable-unfavorable view. sarah palin, 52 percent unfavorable. do you think she could beat barack obama? >> i actually do not think she could beat barack obama. i think she would be very competitive in a republican primary but i don't think she's our best candidate to take into the general election against obama. martha: you used to work for mitt romney, do you still support him? >> you know, i don't support anyone at this point. it's pretty early. you have to see who's going to get in and what kind of organization, message people want, we're going to be putting together. i think you have to look at who has the ability to put together the kind of organization you need in a president, so mitt romney would be at the very top of that list, i think his credibility on economic issues, had the economy been more of an issue than foreign affairs in the last

election, i think mitt romney would have been the nominee. martha: we will never know the answer to that question but we're going to find out this time around. david, do you think that sarah palin could beat barack obama? >> i don't think at this time she can say that and prove it. here's the problem. everybody's picking the winner and personalities. let's look at the skill sets and be pragmatists, who can win the election across the country. that's not going to be determined for another year, or at least we're not going to have a better picture for another year on who can really beat barack obama. martha: let me throw in a couple of interesting red herrings. this morning donald trump was at abc talking to george stephanopoulos and he said i'm thinking about running, i'm going to decide by june, what donald trump says. he says look, i talked to chinese business leaders all the time and they're laughing about this, they think we're being run by fools and he said no problem, i could throw 200 million at a campaign if i decided to do it, not a big deal for me.

what do you think? >> you know what, it certainly would make the race more interesting. i think frankly it would benefit republicans because i think there would be a lot of dissatisfaction with barack obama and anything that we could do to divide the left of center vote i think would be helpful to us, but i think we've got some very good, very serious candidates that we can put up in the general election, and so as a republican, i would welcome a third party candidate. martha: i think he's talking about running as a republican. yeah. >> you know, then great, that's even better. he would be interesting addition to it and make the primaries more entertaining than they normally are. martha: let me ask the tea party representative here, if you had a choice between sarah palin and donald trump as a republican nominee, david, who would you have more confidence in to beat the president? >> well, the better chance there i think would be clearly sarah palin. look, i love the donald, he's a great guy, but i don't see him winning across the board, but that's my other caution to everyone who says this is the candidate, this is the candidate.

we have got bigger issues and we need to look at the country's voting landscape and realize that these conservative values that we need to vote back in are going to be carried by someone who can capture the most votes, not just the support of one issue or the other. martha: a lot of people are thinking it may be somebody else, an emerging leader. >> that unknown candidate. martha: could be. it will be a big part of the discussion. jason, thank you, david, thank you. bill: now to the verdict that came out of new york late last night, did terrorists score a victory in u.s. civilian court? the defense lawyer for ahmed ghailani certainly does not think so, a jury finding his client not guilty of more than 200 murders, including 12 americans, in the 198 u.s. embassy bombings in east africa. now the attorney: >> we're in the shadow of the world trade center, this jury acquitted ahmed haffan ghailani of 284 out of 285

counts. at the start of this trial, we believe that ahmed was truly innocent of all these charges. please understand that we still truly believe he is innocent of all these charges. bill: that takes us to an obvious question. what now for the future of civilian trials for people like khalid shaikh mohammed and others? victoria henssing, welcome back here. where do we go? what do we read from this? >> this certainly was not a victory for the government and it really is -- the verdict is a direct result of putting ghailani into our regular criminal justice system and not trying him by military commission, i don't know if our viewers remember that the judge, because of strict rules of criminal procedure, denied the government the ability to put on its crucial witness, and that witness, abidi is

his name, would have testified that ghailani bought the explosives on the black market which would show that he had some kind of reason to hide what he was doing but by not being allowed to put that witness in, then the defense could argue oh, he didn't know what he was doing, he was just a dupe, or why he was buying explosives. it's a crucial point. bill: that's a great point, it would not have happened in a military tribunal, whether it was the brig in south carolina, whether it was a gitmo in cuba. why was this star witness -- this evidence was excluded because this witness identified this guy at one of these secret cia interrogation centers in another part of the world. is that the reason why his testimony was not allowed? >> i promise not to get too far down in the legalies but it's the food of the poisonous tree doctrine and our rules, because we protect constitutional rights, is that if the government coerces a confession and that's a

legal term, coerces a confession in any way not only can they not only the use the words from that confession against the person himself but any kind of evidence he should find, anything he tells you like i left the document in the drawer, a witness tells where he bought the explosives, then the government is punished, because they can't use it, and they are denied for having coerced. well, now, you listen to how we are for future trials because we all know the detainees are trained to accuse the agencies of torturing them or coercing them, and i'm not talking water boarding, i'm talking aggravation. bill: in a word and i've got to go and i apologize for the shortness of time here. was this considered a slam dunk case, is this why he was taken out of gitmo and tried in civilian court in new york, did they think they had the goods on him? >> you're going to have to ask the justice department if it was a slam dunk. it certainly shows it wasn't and this shows that the

government takes the stand that they -- why are they treating him as a prisoner of war on one hand and our constitutional protections on the other which shows how difficult it is in our soft underbelly because every detainee now will just accuse the government of coercing a confession and the government in this case could not put on witnesses to rebutt that. they didn't want to put on the cia officers in open court. bill: you raise great interesting points and certainly there's a discussion in the department of justice and maybe even the white house over matters like these. we'll watch it throughout the day. victoria toensing, thank you for your time. martha. martha: are you traveling this holiday season? you may be hearing a lot of this: >> you can do that here but you touch my junk, i'm going to have you arrested. martha: is junk touch ago concern that we're all going to have to deal with to fly

safely or does it really make us safe? bill: you saw politics can be brutal, what prompted this smackdown, heard around the world. martha: the lady in purple! >> ♪ >> ♪ welcome to the jungle. >> ♪ >> ♪

martha: this just crossing the wires, julian assange, head of wickileaks, has been detained by swedish court to give testimony with regard to the suspicion of rape charges that have been brought against him. he claims it was a consensual event, and his lawyer says that that's what they've maintained all along, officials have said they have not been taoeubl

get in touch with him, haven't been able to ask him questions and now they'll detain him for questions. an interesting development in the julian assange wickileaks case. bill: air security, the controversy continues a week before the busiest and probably the most hectic travel time of the year, that's thanksgiving. the new enhanced patdowns for folks who do not want to walk through body scanners, one center calls the searches love pats but even the head of the tsa now admitting they can feel intrusive. >> i insisted that i receive that patdown before i ordered that it be deployed nationwide. >> and your impression? >> that it is thorough. i understand that. but your impression beyond the fact that it was thorough. >> well, the whole purpose is -- >> did it make you uncomfortable? >> yes. >> what was your impression? >> yes. >> so it was more invasive than what i was used to. the bottom line is we need to provide for the best

possible security. >> and how do we balance all of that? with us, former tsa deputy administrator tom blitcom and he favors the recent changes, by the way, john is not for it, director of the open project. good morning to you as well. john, what's wrong with this? >> we filed a lawsuit in federal court to shut down the body scanner program and we believe that the patdowns are punitive, they're retaliatory and unconstitutional. they're simply unreasonable in any context, particularly in a mandatory primary screening context. bill: what about that, tom? is it going too far? >> it's not going too far. the priority is to make sure airplanes aren't blown out of the sky. one way you do that is by preventing explosives from moving through the checkpoint. body imaging technology is -- is a big improvement, a positive tool for the screeners to be able to detect that and prevent that, and the patdowns are

most likely as aggressive as they are because the tsa has some intelience that warrants that, and they have current threat information that probably says that this is a necessary step at this particular time. bill: john, what is your alternative, if you were to win your lawsuit or your argument, what else would you do? i mean, what tom makes there is a pretty good point, you know, if you let one of these bombers get through and take a plane out of the sky, what then? >> you know, no one wants a bomber to take a plane out of the sky, but -- but the reit alt is the scanners don't detect explosives, petn, which is the explosive used in the attempted christmas day bombing last year, so they provide little or no protection against that particular threat. as for the patdowns, the patdowns are so invasive as to be characterized as a sexual assault from individuals who have undergone them, and while we certainly don't want to see anyone getting through security with a bomb there have to be better ways to prevent explosives from getting on planes other than

molesting our children and elderly and americans. bill: on that point, tom, we have heard from countless travelers who say man, this is not the way to do it, whether it's on them or a member of their family. >> well, bill, you have heard from countless travelers, but you know what, many, many thousands of travelers that you haven't heard from. let's remember that tsa screens 2 million people a day, literally, thousands of those are going through the iat, and thousands are being subjected to the patdown. it's unfortunate that right now it has to be as aggressive as it is. i believe tsa will move away from it just as soon as the threat scenario that they now see and have evaluated warrants that. bill: so you think the tsa is going to back off at some point? >> i think at some point they will back off as they continue to -- >> bill: does that mean like people like john wynn? >> i don't think that means people like john -- like john wins, i think it means the american people win because explosives will not

get on an airplane but as the threat scenario changes and intelligence changes, so do the procedures we use. bill: this debate will continue. i'm going to thank goth of -- both of you. john, you get the next word when we come back. and what do you think at home? is it worth sacrificing americans' privacy and convenience for better security at the airport? you decide. online, foxnews.com foxnews.com/"america's newsroom" and weigh in. is it a yes or no, or is it that simple? take it skwhraoeupb. martha: fox news alert, let's check the markets now, up 143 points largely on the strength of gm, which is up 8 percent at the open, and its new ipo, they largely increased the number of shares that they are offering today. it started at $33 a share, up over $35 a share right now. a lot of discussion and controversy over this gm ipo, whether it came too soon. fyi, in order to pay that treasury, the stock would have to be up 50 percent. this means that you own it, folks. bill: good luck with that.

we're still short $40 billion from the original bailout for bh -- from gm. martha: it's a start, right? bill: yeah. we'll get to that, debate it. we'll talk about this drug violence, spiralling out of control on the border with mexico. >> to hear these pilots talk about their aor, surveillance technique, tactical strike techniques, they could be in kabul or baghdad right now, they are literally fighting a war on the southwest border. martha: all right, jennifer griffin there. not only does nancy pelosi stay in the picture but so does the entire democratic leadership team. are democrats missing the message of the midterm? >> democratic members in the house are like nancy pelosi -- who elected nancy pelosi as their leader, it's almost like they didn't get the message of the voters this election.

bill: bam! martha: i love the wind-up! bill: a disagreement over the budget. we've heard that before. martha: there was applause there! we'll show that several times today, i think. it's a good one! you see what the title is there. is it america's third war right now? in mexico, a short distance from the u.s. border, the murder rate is double the number of deaths in baghdad. jennifer griffin, who is a seasoned war correspondent is headed there to get a close-up look at how u.s. authorities are fighting this battle every day. she is live along the rio grande in mission, texas. good morning to you jennifer. >> reporter: good morning, martha. well, that is mexico, right across the river there.

when we arrived this morning, there was a cartel 's -- cartel spotter looking at our position, we have state troopers providing protection for us, but as you said, we've covered a lot of wars, and to hear the authorities talk, they are fighting a classic -- using classic counterinsurgency tactics. we flew along with the texas department of public safety just two nights ago. here's what we saw: >> i never once thought that although we've always done historically some great work it would be in this paramilitary type engagement. and that's what this is. it's a war on the border. >> captain stacy holland is in charge of 16 state of the art helicopters that make up the aviation outfit used by the texas department of public safety to fight the drug cartels. the cartels have spotters who sit in duck blinds on the river and call out the positions of the u.s. border patrol.

as the sun went down near maxalen, a border town of 100,000, we got a call to provide air support for a pursuit. >> he's doing about 130. >> three vehicles, one filled with nar narcotics, a chase ensues, imaging and night vision helped with the hunt. >> the night sun spotlight allows the troopers on the ground to track and surround the drug runners. >> one of the suspects is in custody. >> we have everybody. we have everybody. >> 1800 pounds of marijuana, with a street value of $700,000, captured, along with seven suspected cartel members. it's all in a night's work for the texas department of public safety. >> president obama says that the southwest border is more secure than it has been in 20 years, but it sure didn't look that way, martha, the

other night when we were with the texas authorities. martha: what an amazing thing you witnessed. jennifer griffin, thank you very much. incredible video. jennifer griffin reporting along the border. bill: a stunning verdict in the trial of the gitmo detainee, one guilty verdict out of 280 charges. peter king reacts in moments. and where and why this is happening: >> [ female announcer ] wake up time. but not for your eyes. they're still so tired-looking. with olay, challenge that with regenerist anti-aging eye roller. its hydrating formula with caffeine-conditioning complex perks up the look of eyes. it works in the blink of an eye.

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martha: all right, folks, general motors, 16 short months ago in bankruptcy filing, now the hottest thing on the floor of the new york stock exchange today, look at the dow jones industrials right now. up triple digits, backing off the highs of the morning, in what may become the digest nish public offering of stock, ever. the new stock jumping 8% ought of the gate and it ends the government ownership of general motors. after federal bailouts, rescued the company from bankruptcy, last year, joining us, at the

half-hour, fox business anchor liz claman will tell us, who the big winners are and who is left out in the cold and i bet you have a few guesses on that one. this morning we're awaiting a crucial sit down at the white house today. president obama, vice president biden, leading democrats, from the house and the senate, all set to meet behind closed doors in the oval office, they'll assess everything on the table, all the stuff they hope to get go done in the lame duck session and the republicans fear the most pressing national issues may be lost in the shuffle behind the closed doors, brand new hour of "america's newsroom," thursday it is, i'm martha maccallum, thanks for buying here. bill: i'm bill hemmer, braepleno talk about today, tax cuts are the priority for republicans and dick durbin, the number 2 democrat in the senate and said, quote, i'm just hoping that once

republicans get home for thanksgiving and get cranberry relish or whatever it is they are going to be in a better mood about sitting down and talking. martha: i'm sure that will change, cranberry relish and everybody gets together! carl cameron joins us live on capitol hill. up above us on the big screen there, hey, carl, already in the lame duck session, when will they get to all of this stuff? >> after the thanksgiving break, a lame duck session that is supposed to end after the first week of december but it may go long because of how much they put on their agenda. the democrats meeting down with the president today and one of the thing they've been saying is when it comes to what to deal and how to deal with the expiration of the bush tax cuts they need direction from the president. lawmakers on the house and in the the senate, doing their day's business, and, what they really want to know is, what ills tis the president's bargaining position and what will he accept by way of compromise, he say in the past he wants to extend the bush tax cuts for the middle class and put the tax cuts that

passed during the bush era, applying to people making over $250,000 expire which would be a big, big tax increase and democrats recognize that that could be a very, very politically and economically dangerous thing, a number of democrats said they should be extend, but the white house and the democratic leadership disagree. and how that gets worked out shows no sign of making a difference, both sides seem increasingly dug in, and, the tax cuts will e go up if they are not extended, january 1st. martha: republicans, some of them are saying they are willing to compromise and some say they are not. what is the reality here, carl. >> reporter: the republican leadership in the house will be the majority, next year, but in this lame duck session, john boehner and eric cantor et al. are required to follow the agenda and schedule asset by current house speaker nancy pelosi. they had a lot of leadership elections and a lot of discussions in the house, and,

the more liberal house minority of next year is determined not to allow the tax cuts to go -- rather, let them expire for folks making over a quarter of a million dollars and republicans have no incentive for that and because nancy pelosi as a majority speaker was tough on the g.o.p. and pushed a lot of stuff through over unanimous republican opposition, the bipartisan impetus is really not there on the house side. on the senate side, mitch mcconnell has the benefit of a lot of senate democrats, he's going to be the republican minority leader, and there are a lot of democratic centrists who think all of the tax cuts should be extended. lest we forget some are up for re-election in two years. martha: oh, yes. and there is the cranberry relishing for everybody. carl cameron, thank you very much, carl. bill: which is outstanding, by the way, at the hemmer house, right? and the mccallum house and there was supposed to be a big meeting in the white house today, but this week the g.o.p. cancelled, bret baier with me now, anchor

of "special report" good morning there. >> reporter: cranberry relish is good. bill: you call it relish, i call it sauce. there is drama in every corner of town and can you chalk it up to a two week delay or does it say about the ongoing relationship the white house has, especially with house republicans now. >> reporter: there's a lot of story lines inside the beltway, it was about gamesmanship and the republicans playing to the best negotiating point, ahead of the deal on tax cuts, whatever that is going to be, that carl mentioned and there appears to be evidence that this is literally just a scheduling mishap, the schedulers from the white house called the republicans the day of the president's cabinet meeting, and were working out a date, starting the process, and the republicans said we have all of these caucus meetings, all of these retirement dinners and all of this stuff happening, this week, and, the schedulers were working out, according to numerous people on capitol hill,

the president said we're going to do this on november 18th, we'll have the long meeting and go into dinner and stay for a long time and, there were a lot of aides on both sides, the white house and capitol hill wide-eyed and saying, we just haven't locked this in yet. bill: i've got it. you heard from carl a moment ago. and i asked jim hensarling, about whether or not they are getting mixed signals from the white house regarding tax cuts. go back a couple weeks ago to what david axelrod said, you have to deal with what is giving you, paraphrasing now, you deal in the moment. has the president maybe gone against the diehard wishes of democrats in the house, and maybe are a bit squishy, leaving the door open to wondering what he'd support ultimately? >> reporter: i think that is what that meeting is happening today. really democrats anxious to hear exactly where the president is on this. carl's right, with the folks that he is talking with on

capitol hill, saying they want guidance here as they stake their ground. the bottom line is no politician in the town wants tax cuts to expire for every american. in essentially a tax hike in january -- on january 1 and have two big things to do, december 3rd, the money for the government ends and they need a continuing resolution to continue that and, two, they need to deal with this tax cut extension, so that they don't rise. right now, the indication is, the white house is willing to do temporary extension, democrats are saying, you need to hold your ground. bill: got it. it seems like the sands are shifting and we'll see how far, ultimately, bret, thanks, man, we'll see you at 6:00, east coast time, bret baier, thanks. martha: this is a "fox news alert," here's a flash from the past, folks, how about this: two new arrests today in the bernie madoff giant ponzi scheme, taking joanne croupy into custody and annette

bonjourno was arrested in florida, they both worked for him for a long time will be unsealed today, and, he is serving 150 years in prison, for bilking investorses out of tens of billions of dollars and a few months ago they went after money, homes and cars at the women's residences and now they are under arrest. bill: the trial goes on, doesn't it? 8 minutes past the hour now, she may have lost the battle but now appears alaska senator lisa murkowski won the war and made history, associated press declaring her the winner over tea party favorite joe miller and he has yet to concede but she staged a write-in campaign after losing the republican primary and latest numbers, she's ahead by a couple thousand votes, not including votes challenged by the miller campaign and here she is, describing her situation on "fox & friends." >> i did not listen to the

conventional wisdom. i listened to alaskans and they were asking me to stay in the race, they were asking me to give them a choice. and we saw that play out, after two months, you have -- you have history that has been made. a write-in candidate has prevailed. bill: we were told a bit earlier today that republican leaders in alaska are urging joe miller to drop out but it has not been the case and we'll watch the story when the sun comes up in the last frontier state. martha: searchers are holding out hope, today, also in alaska but have found no signs of the pilot of an air force f-22 fighter jet crashing in a remote area 100 miles north of anchorage, near denali national park. ground radar lost track of it and pilots carry survival gear and are trained for arctic conditions and we're holding out hope, the pilot's name not yet

released. bill: one well-known flying craft, too. he faced hundreds of charges stemming from the u.s. embassy bombings in africa. he was acquitted on all but one, single count. congressman peter king, live in a moment on why it could be an ugly sign of things to come. martha: house speaker nancy pelosi soon to be house minority leader nancy pelosi, democrats are keeping her as their leader. does it mean they missed the message on election day. >> and a new warning from the air force about the internet. what is that all about? we wonder.... they fill you up without filling you out. yes! v8 juice gives you three of your five daily servings of vegetables. that's what i'm talking about! v8. what's your number?

. bill: a "fox news alert," we want to bring to your attention, a security scare involving an air berlin flight, in namibia, authorities found a suitcase containing batteries attached to a clock and it was found near the luggage going on the flight.

after all of the luggage was rechecked the flight made it to nun munich, germany and they are trying to figure out if the device could have exploded on board, a day after germany raised the terror threat level. 1 past. -- 13 past. martha: the big story of the day, folks, a stunning terror verdict that is testing president obama's strategy on civilian trials, for terrorists. ahmed ghailani, the first guantanamo bay detainee, to be tried in a civilian courtroom, nearly walked away scott-free, yesterday. after a jury found him not guilty on all but one of more than 280 charges, he was not guilty for the murders of more than 200 people killed in two u.s. embassy bombings in africa. despite quite a bit of evidence that he was deeply involved including his cell phone used as the detonator and other testimony, that said that he was involved in getting the truck for this bombing, and there were

12 americans who were killed on that day. now, u.s. attorney general eric holder repeatedly promised that civilian courts could handle this case. >> at the conclusion of the ghailani case, ask me that question again. i'll give you the same answer, which is that our courts are fully capable of handling these matters. martha: i wonder what his reaction to this news was. when it came late yesterday. i'm happy to be joined by new york republican pete king, who was outraged by the verdict. and he's the ranking member of the house homeland security committee and will chair that committee starting in january, congressman king, welcome, good to have you today. >> good morning, martha, good to be with you. martha: you said it is a tragic outcome. >> it is, it is tragic because of the outcome itself, but, also tragic because we knew at least the last month it was bound to happen, once the judge excluded the testimony of a witness who

would have connected him to these horrible acts and would have brought about conviction it became very very, difficult to convict them and this is the danger and insanity of bringing these cases in a civilian court. if it was a military commission, that evidence would have been allowed, and, i'm confident that ghailani would have been convicted and the president said, and the attorney general, the reason they wanted to have these cases in civilian court was to show that these courts can get the job done and let the world see what was going to happen and the world has seen, that he was acquitted on 284 counts, and including over 200 charges of murder. martha: i heard from david lee miller, who has been covering the case for us, that the prosecution basically got up from the table, walked out, and were completely silent and had to have been struck by this. it was alsos reported that ghailani smiled at times when the not guilty was read over and over and over and over again the. for all of those more than 200 murders in these embassy

bombings. nobody can feel too good about that. but the other side, congressman king will be say things along these lines, he got 20 years and could get 20 years to life sentence and because of the way the case was handled, there are fewer opportunities for him to appeal, because, you know, they were stringent about not allowing the testimony. >> there was never a problem of keeping him there, we could have kept him indefinitely, and there is a law with al qaeda and he's an enemy combatant, the purpose of the trial as i understand it from the president is to show the world we'd convict them guilty and find them guilty of the heinous crimes and we have seen the jury acquit him of 284 counts altogether, and, it sets the tone of what can happen and the prelude to what will happen if we had khalid sheikh mohammed and the other 9/11 defendants on trial in a civilian court in new york. martha: what will happen with that? where will ksm be tried and when.

>> i doubt he'll be tried the next several years and the president boxed himself into a corner, he and eric holder and i think you'll find him kept at guantanamo bay along with the other 9/11 defendants, and, be held indefinitely an sometime after 2012, depending on what happens with the election the president will decide and he cannot bring him to new york and, yesterday's verdict shows why he can't -- shouldn't bring him to a civilian court, if he has the trial in guantanamo bay, there is too much of a reversal for the president and they'll put everything on ice and let him sit there the next several years. martha: and, eric holder, the attorney general as a result of this, i want to play a couple pieces of sound of what he said about the importance, he felt of trying these people in new york, listen to both of these sound bites. i wanted your reaction. congressman. >> sure. >> after 8 years of delaying, those allegedly responsible for the attacks of september 11th, will finally face justice. they will be brought to new york, to new york, to answer for their alleged crimes in a

courthouse, just blocks away from where the twin towers once stood. failure is not an option, these are cases that have to be won. i don't expect that we will have a contrary result. martha: very tough when you walk into a court of law, to guarantee people that there is going to be justice, you think of all the families who lost people in those embassy bombings, this was their one chance, to see somebody pay that price. >> it really was and as an attorney, i don't blame the prosecutors, they did the best they could under the circumstances, but under the rules of that -- law in that case, it was -- almost impossible to win it and when eric holder said there was a delay years, the fact is several years ago khalid sheikh mohammed wanted to plead guilty before a commission and it would have been over and he would have received the death penalty and this... much of the delay came from legal delays by lawyers and the president and eric holder closing down the military commissions in guantanamo bay and now, we have had a delay over a year, and, the delay is

because of him. martha: congressman king, thank you very much. it is always good to have you here, you'll be in the catbird seat for all of this as the chairman of your committee, come january, have a good say, sir, thank you. bill: more to come on that, right. martha: you bet. bill: switching gears. pepperoni pizza, a few games of pac man and the barrel of a gun, not your typical lunch at chuck e. cheese. incredible video, we'll show you in a moment here. martha: i'm sticking around for that, and getting ugly here at home over the costs, folks... listen to this. >> they came charging with batons, and i kept repeated, i'm a nonviolent activist and my hands were down and they kept striking and then, an officer reached over and i'm not sure if they are allowed to put it to your face and spray but he did it to half a dozen people.

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martha: a frightening story, a chuck e. cheese restaurant in newark, new jersey, after a terrifying armed robbery, check out this tape, three gunmen burst into the restaurant, waving their guns while dozens of parents were sitting there eating their pizza with their kids, they must have been terrified and one gunman points his gun at the head of the young employee, look at the people trying to run and get away. and they raided the cash register and herded the customers into a storeroom, what you actually saw happening in the piece of video there and police say because they had masks on they don't have a lot of leads in the case. bill: hope they get some, huh? one way to get your pizza, the wrong way! a violent scene of protests on a u.s. college campus, protesters storming an administrator's meeting at the universities of california. -- university of california, overwhelming an officer,

prompting him to draw his gun and that was not all. claudia cowan is live, what is the issue for the protesters? >> reporter: students don't want another rate increase at uc schools, bill, a very violent day, 13 people arrested including ten uc students four police officers suffering minor injuries and overall, about 300 demonstrators clashed with police at the mission bay campus and things got violent when protesters gathered down in the garage, tried to get into the main building where the uc regents were meeting and here's how one student described the chaos. >> we tried to get into the meeting and going done the stairwell and they were pushing up the stairwell and someone fell on top of me... >> at one point a student got ahold of an officer's baton and hit him in the head and the officer pulled his service gun in self-defense and called for help. no shots were fired and the student who grabbed the baton was arrested for investigation of assault with a deadly weapon,

that's a felony, at least 15 people were treated after police used pepper spray to disperse the crowd and, the meeting is an hour, in san francisco, to vote on an 8% divisituition hike and approved, fees for residents to be $11,000, months after a 32% tuition increase took effect and uc officials say it is needed to maintain student enrollment, courses and services following the... students say they may have to drop out an uc officials expect more protests on all ten uc campuses today, police say they are better prepared to handle any violence that may occur. we're monitoring the story today, bill and we'll keep you posted. bill: one to watch for sure, especially on all of those campuses, thank you, in san francisco. it comes days after a california court ruled that the state can offer illegal immigrants

in-state tuition rates. california is not the only one that does it, ten states grant the same rights to undocumented students who meet the requirements and one requirement is saying the affidavit saying they are intending to file for legal immigration status. all of that in california today. martha: so much buzz... the naked scanners have sparked outrage and conversation among pretty much everyone you meet these days. there's a lot of figure out there, though, on all of this. what exactly do they show? and what don't they show that maybe exactly what they should show! bill: guilty on 11 discounts of ethics violation. what happens to the veteran democrat charlie rangel? judgment day is today. >> i love charlie rangel. he's a great guy. >> he did an interview some months ago... you thought he was going to come out of this okay. >> yep. >> were you wrong? >> well, we'll see how it plays out, what "okay" means.

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>> 10:31, top stories in "america's newsroom," terrifying accounts on board the -- qantas jumbo jet inside the cockpit after the engine exploded mid flight, pilots got 54 simultaneous warnings and sirens, and, amazing they landed

safely, and, it happened two weeks ago and number of people filing unemployment claims rising slightly last week, 439,000 applications, unemployment rate, however, holding steady, 9.6%, hollywood community bucking up with big money to find out who murdered ronnie chaseen, who was shot multiple times in the chest as she drove through beverly hills, midnight tuesday night. and now, more than $125,000 of reward money for clues on her killer. martha: a big story in on capitol hill, we'll soon learn the punishment for congressman charlie rangel, what he'll face for violating house ethics rules, the ethics committee convicted the veteran democrat lawmaker on 11 charges this week. and, today he find out his fate. whether he'll receive a reprimand, censure or even, possibly, expulsion from congress, for charlie rangel, he'll find out today, james rosen is live in washington.

what do we expect today? >> reporter: new york one is reporting that we hill attend today's proceeding which is akin to a sentencing hearing. our cameras spotted the 20 term lawmaker from harlem on the job this morning, at his office, in the rayburn house office building and he had never contested the charges against him and confessed only to lapses and spent this critical week, complaining about due process, and as you said, martha, the committee found, the ethics committee the former chairman of the tax writing ways and means committee was guilty of 11 violations of house rules, and these include his failure to report income from a villa he owned in the dominican republic, his use of a rent controlled apartment as a campaign office, and his use of congressional letter heads to solicit funds for a center named in his honor and as a result of the foregoing, general conduct unbecoming of a member of the house and after those verdicts were returned tuesday afternoon, our indefatigable house producer called him for an exclusive interview and when he referred his own case to the ethics

committee in the spring of 200, chad directed rangel's staff to the room where the paperwork had to be dropped off and chad said to the lawmaker tuesday night, it has not turned out so well for you, has it. >> well i think it has, people can look through all of the responses from the ethics committee that said there was no self-dealing, there was no corruption, there was nothing, not a bit of evidence as related to any criminal activity. >> reporter: so, if he does speak at today's sentencing, that is the kind of thing we might expect to hear. martha: what this is punishment likely to be, anyone guessing on that, on capitol hill today. >> reporter: of course we are! that is what we do, it could ranging a ye ing as you mention reprimand to expulsion from the house and the last scenario is seen as unlikely, because at monday's proceeding the chief prosecutor in the case, counsel to the ethics committee, advised lawmakers that he had found no

evidence of corruption, only, quote, overzealousness and sloppiness on his part and it is expected he'll get off with a reprimand and will have to make an apology and the proceeding should last two yours. martha: thanks, james rosen. bill: thanks, james, four sillabl sillabl syllables, we love them. the gm initial public offering, now back in the game, the company's biggest step away from government ownership and may be the largest public stock offering we have ever seen. who wins, who cashes in, liz claman from the fox business network, anchor of "count down to the closing bell." >> morning. bill: debuted at $33. >> now it is $35.58, looks to be a gain of 7%, so people are

already in the money but it is a rising tide lifting a lot of boats, dow jones industrials up more than 170 points. bill: stocks are flying and the heart of the matter here: gm was given $50 billion. in taxpayer dollars in the bailout, we have taken i think, $10 billion back. >> 7 to 10. bill: $40 billion in outstanding money the taxpayers have given to gm. >> it's not there yet. not even close, you have to see the stock price at $47 a share, to make that money back, but, trust me, nobody expected you would get your money back here, just today. however, the fact that it is up above the ipo price at the moment, remember, everything matters, at 3:59 p.m. when the closing bell rings. bill: when you are on tv, as a matter of fact. the danger when the government gets involved in private business. what if the share price goes to 15? do we lose again. >> it very well could go lower, maybe by next week. we saw tesla motors, go public

recently at a share price of $17 and went below it a couple of days later and now is up to $29, these things get volatile but the taxpayer wants to be paid back, however, talking to a lot of people, experts on the economy and on general motors and they say most likely give or take $10 billion, which is a lot, obviously, we will get our money back, sooner rather than later. bill: i home they are right. isn't there an irony in the way this congress and administration has been bang on wall street for the last two years and now go to wall street to help them make money back, on decisions made two years ago. >> it is fascinating, the only way to launch an initial public offering, are under writers, jp morgan, morgan stanley, the people who got us into trouble in the first place take the shares from general motors and put them into the markets and they are going to hedge funds, mutual funds, pension funds, who get those shares but, the little guy has not necessarily gotten in, though when you look at the

numbers, 20% of this ipo flow went to the little guy, that is more than most ipos ever offered to the so-called retail investor. bill: to really get on the goods -- to be a big time investor, the big firms, they give you a couple of shares on the side and, keep you as a client. >> you would rather not be in on the first day, it is dangerous, think of krispy kreme or e-toys, 1999, the ipo of e-toys, went public, martha remembers this, it went public at $20, first day went to $85, and today, don't even ask. not even close. bill: we'll see you later today, right? count down to the closing bell, fbn, bulls and bears, starts 3:00 p.m. eastern time and she'll be on the air. >> with the closing price. bill: 3:59 p.m. with the closing price. thank you. martha: and, there were a lot of krispy kreme doughnuts that day! who can forget that, a fierce debate raging in utah, overstate

representatives' proposed immigration bill, letting it go forward and says it will pass in this legislative session. >> contrary to what you might have heard, in recent days, my immigration bill, the utah immigration enforcement act, is alive and well in the state of utah and in the -- [cheers and applause]. martha: when different groups spoke about the plan sparks began to fly. check this out: >> he was pushing her, and you -- are you calling me a ar? calling me a liar? >> you didn't listen to what i had to say... >> why not -- >> i have. >> you have not... martha: a sample of the debate and opponents call the bill racist and some say it will separate families, representative steven sandstrom says his bill dartings criminal elements an argues having

compassion and upholding the rule of the law are not mutually exclusive ideas. bill: 20 minutes before the hour, air force warning troops about using facebook, why the popular social networking site could put our armed forces in danger, something to think about... martha: and house democrats voting to keep nancy pelosi as their leader. standing by her in the house. did they miss the message voters were sending on election day? >> we have obviously come out of the biggest loss we have had for the democratic party in almost a century and to go back and put the exact same leadership in place is probably not the right thing for our party and to move our country forward. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made.

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crisis, i know you have been talking a lot about this, gm trading again today on the new york stock exchange. one of the biggest ipos in history, will it mean a refund, though for taxpayers? we take your questions, to our boardroom, our guest panel, go to foxnews.com/happening now, i see a few of you on already. back to you, bill and martha, thanks, we'll look forward to that at the top of the hour and democrats are deciding they want to keep nancy pelosi as their leader, despite historic congressional losses on election day and eric cantor says that is a tone deaf move by democrats. here's what he said. >> the numbers in the house, elected nancy pelosi in their leader, it's as if they didn't get the message from the voters, this election. i mean, the voters out right rejected the agenda that she has been about. martha: there you have it, richard socarides is a former special assistant to bill clinton and joins me now.

good morning. >> hi. martha: he says you guys don't get it. don't get what the election is about. what do you say. >> i think the democrats, specifically the democrats in the house are still absorbing what happened. martha: still absorbing it, several weeks later. >> a big impact, takes a long time to absorb! the republicans are still absorbing it, too, people are trying to get used to the new reality and trying to figure out how to deal with each other and one thing that she said concerned me, they asked why did she think she deserved to be reelected and she said, because i got health care through and that is definitely wrong message and not what i would say. martha: i believe that's what she believes and tells us over and over and thinks it was a huge victory, and something that will go down as her legacy. >> i don't think that is why she should have been reelected and why people voted for her. people -- her caucus voted for her, for reasons that are really not visible necessarily to the average person. i think they like that she stands up to obama.

i think the math works in her favor, she's from california and there are more members of congress in -- >> and, the legislation she wanted -- >> well, she stands up to him in private and stands up for the house democrats against him when they don't think he's doing enough, the democrats believe the reason they took the "shellacking" as the president said was because the white house didn't do a good enough job at packaging and communicating about their successes. so -- but they also like her, because she's effective, because, when they make a plan she gets the votes through and that is what you want the most of all in a leader and they voted for her because they are -- there is kind of nobody else and if you look around, nobody else could come in and really take over and we know it is hard to beat anybody with nobody. but, i think what she really needs to do now is take a serious look at the way people perceive her. she needs a rebranding. if i worked for her and worked

there i would say, look, you have to totally reintroduce yourself. bill: martha: you think she's capable of that, at this point in her life, she's a remarkable woman, it is historic she's the first female speaker of the house but comes across as buying into everything, that she pushed for, which included a fletremens amount of new spending and that is not where the american people appear to be, which is cutting spending and the deficit. those were the two big takeaway messages from the election. >> i think she's capable of it and a great politician and i think she understands, or will come to understand... martha: where she needs to be... >> i think what it is, a lot of it is atmospheric and needs to remind people in ways big -- and also ways small, the democrats are there because they are the party that wants to help people, and we as democrats, that is what we're for -- >> that is the big issue, how do you effectively help people. >> we think the republicans are

going to make money and the democrats will help people, that is -- >> that is the old line. that is old, richmond, thank you very much. richard socarides, next time we'll talk about presidential politics when you come back, okay? >> looking forward to that. bill: the debate over body scanners, the country now getting ready to head out for the thanksgiving holiday. some by road and many by air, but can the technology stop a terrorist trying to smuggle a bomb onto a plane? a closer look with our aviation expert minutes away.

martha: from the white house, let's listen in, the president, at the white house. >> president barack obama:... are clear, and, they are high. the new star treaty responsibly

reduces the number of nuclear weapons and launchers the u.s. and russia deploy while fully maintaining america's nuclear deterrent. and if we ratify the street, we'll have a verification regime in place to track russia's strategic nuclear weapons. including u.s. inspectors on the ground. if we don't, then we don't have a verification regime. no inspectors, no insights into russia's strategic arsenal, no framework for cooperation between the world's two nuclear super powers. as ronald reagan said, we have to trust but we also have to verify, and in order for to us verify we have to have a treaty and the new "start" treaty is a cornerstone of our relations with russia and it goes beyond nuclear security. russia's been fundamental to our efforts to put strong sanctions in place to put pressure on iran

to deal with its nuclear program. it has been critical in supporting our troops in afghanistan. through the northern distribution network. it has been critical in working with us to secure all vulnerable nuclear materiel around the world and enhance european security. we cannot afford to gamble on our ability to verify russia's strategic nuclear arms and can't jeopardize the progress we have made in securing vulnerable nuclear materiel or maintaining a strong sanctions regime against iran. these are all national interests, of the highest order. let me also say and i think the group around the table will confirm, that this new "start" treaty is completely in line with a tradition of bipartisan cooperation on this issue. this is not a democratic concept. this is not a republican concept. this is a concept of american

national security. that has been promoted by ronald reagan, george h. w. bush, bill clinton, george w. bush and, now, my administration. we have taken the time to do this right. to ensure that the treaty got a fair hearing. we submitted to the senate last spring. because the leadership of john kerry and dick luger there have been 18 hearings on this subject. there had been multiple briefings. it has been fulen fully and car vetted and has the full endorsement of our military leadership, vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, hos cartwright is here and will confirm it is in our nation security interests and my administration is prepared to go the extra mile to ensure the remaining stockpile and nuclear

infrastructure is modernized, which i know is a key scene of many around the table and also, many on capitol hill. we have committed to invest $80 billion on the effort to modernize, over the next deck made a kayed -- decade and, we have agreed to request an additional $4.1 billion over the next five years. so, the key point here is, this is not about politics. it is about national security. this is not a matter that can be delayed. every month that goes by, without a treaty, means that we are not able to verify what is going on on this ground, in russia. and if we delay indefinitely american leadership on nonproliferation and america's national security will be weakened. senator reid said yesterday there is time on the calendar to gets the treaty ratified this year and so i have asked vice

presidented by -- vice president biden to focus on this issue until it gets done, day and night and, to let the treaty go up for a vote, i am confident it is the right thing to do and people around the table think it is the right thing to do and i would welcome the press to query the leadership here, people who have been national security advisors, secretaries of state, and key advisors, defense secretaries, for democratic and republican administrations, and they will confirm that this is the right thing to do. so, we have a lot on our plates, during the lame duck session. i recognize that given the difficulties in the economy, that there may be those perhaps democrats and republicans on the hill who think this is not a top priority. i would not be emphasizing this

and these folks would not have traveled all the way if we didn't feel it was absolutely important to get done now. and, so, i'm looking forward to strong cooperation, between democrats and republicans, on capitol hill, as exemplified by john kerry and dick luger to get this done over the course of the next several weeks. all right? thank you very much, everybody. >>... martha: there is president obama saying he thinks the "start" treaty with russia to control nuclear weapons needs to be a top priority and they've so few days to get things done and he wants this to get done by the end of the year an quoted a number of republican presidents as well as democratic presidents an quoted ronald reagan, in terms of saying we need to trust but also verify and wants to get on with the business and jon kyl has been among those who wants to push us into the new year and it was clearly one of the motivations for saying the president wants this to be done and doesn't want anything to stand in the way of that and the president, from the white house, this morning, with henry kissinger and joe biden. bill: lots of controversy over

the full-body scanners in airports, and they create an image of a person similar to a photo negative and some say they show too much and others too much, and an aviation expert joins us, how are you doing and good morning to you. what can and can't they do? >> they can tell you if somebody is carrying a gun, and if somebody is carrying another kind of a weapon, but can't tell you if the substance that the individual is carrying is an explosive, or not. and that is where we have the problem. bill: if the christmas day bomber was given a scan in amsterdam or nigeria, would you have found, the bomb. >> no. you would have found shading, but not what the shading was for, a lot of people, both ages of the spectrum, wear diapers and people wear propose thesthe

devices and, people wear fancy underwear and people are people. bill: is this a good idea. >> it is a terrible idea. it really is, because, it creates the impression that you are providing to the american people the top level of security, when you are not doing that. in fact. we would do a better job with a canine and a profiler and the profiler would tell you who needs to be examined and the canine would do the -- >> we are better off with dogs. why aren't we pursuing that. >> it is not practical, the dog works for about an hour and we need a line-up of dogs, and, instead, we give something that doesn't work at all and tell us that it does. and, while -- violate our privacy every time. bill: a national debate and is getting fueled by the day and will not slow down before thanksgiving next week. thanks for your expertise, nice to see you gain. we have to run, huh? re